Interview: Producer/Actor James Kelley and Actor Jack Messina on the Short Film "Squall"
I want to jump in and really just kind of start talking with the Catalina Film Festival. You guys are wrapping up participation with that. How’d the film festival go?
James: It was great. Sadly, it was just me. I would have loved for Jack and his mom and the director and me and the whole crew to get out there. But fingers crossed for the next one. Without saying too much, we're going to be able to get everyone together. I had a great time but going solo is not as much fun as going with a group. But yeah, so I definitely miss the whole crew and you know, everyone loved Jack's performance so it was super awkward talking to them and everyone's like, where's Jack? Where's Jack? And I was like, couldn't make it work. I'm sorry.
[To Jack] I don't know if your mom shared some of the messages, but at our screening, there were some people that were just in love with your performance, which was awesome because, I mean, we've felt that way for so long, all through post. And so that was really cool to see. But the festival itself was awesome. Catalina Island is beautiful, I've never been. The island’s so magical. Like I spent the whole morning walking around, the venues incredible. The people that run it are incredible. Like the screening, the premiere. Everything about it was so fun. And I just can't believe there's an island that feels like the south of France 40 minutes off the coast of L.A. and it's like easy to get to, and I've never been there. So that was definitely eye-opening. And they have a herd of bison from like a movie project like the 1950s, and we can camp. So I'm definitely going back to, like, commune with the bison when I get more time.
That's really cool. It sounds like an awesome experience and maybe this will be an enticing thing to get me into L.A. and maybe enjoy it a little bit more whenever I can get there.
James: Definitely, you would you would love Catalina. It's like it's so unique. It's crazy. I'm definitely planning on going next year for sure. It's so fun. That's awesome.
Well, I want to talk more with you guys about your roles in the film Squall, but James, really quickly for people who are maybe just discovering this, this short film, can you give us a synopsis of what Squall is about?
For sure, Squall is a film about Louie, who's a recently recovering addict, and how his daylong journey to reconnect with his estranged younger brother, leads them both into an unexpected storm. So, you know, it takes place in real time and it's about this person that's in a state sponsored rehab program and as a part of that program, he makes this decision to seek out and find his younger brother - And the character's name is Jack and his name is Jack so that's super easy - and just the kind of the journey they go on together because how their interaction goes is so meaningful and I think that impacts his immediate ability to make a full recovery, you know? If it doesn't go well, what's that mean? If it does go well, what's that mean? And so that's really where we are focusing our energy and like, you know, time on.
Yeah, it's interesting because there is - it's a short film where maybe not a lot of plot points happen, but a lot is happening with this main character Louie, with this relationship that he's trying to fix and make better. There big implications here for just like the life of this character. And so you really get that sense with how the film plays out.
Yeah, Jack, you played the younger brother and I'm interested in how you felt about approaching a role like this?
Jack: I mean, it was definitely new to me, like the whole drug part, like having a drug addicted brother. But I could relate to it in some way because both of my brothers are eight and ten years older than me. So they went to college when I was just getting in middle school. So I was at home a lot just by myself, very independent. So in that way I could relate to it a lot.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, this is a role where you know, it's a character who wants to have sympathy for his brother and be there for his brother. But also, you know, there's indications that we've been kind of through this already. And so there's almost an apathy that comes with this with your character, Jack. And I think that that was a very interesting thing for you to embody in this role and for you to be able to display and demonstrate in at least the first half of the film. But then, of course, there's a second half where there's not a whole lot of dialog, and it's really just the characters trying to connect.
I did want to ask about that. When it comes to acting and the way this movie plays out, because like I mentioned the first half, there's a lot of dialog that's happening and, and Louie is really trying to explain himself. But then in the second half, there's not a whole lot of dialog. It's really just, you know, silent trying to connect. Talk to me about acting through both of those halves of the film, acting with the dialog component, but then also taking on this this non dialog segment of the film.
James: Dude, you have the best questions. We're definitely this again. [laughs] Jack, do you want to start or do you want me to start?
Jack: Yeah I’ll start. So I mean, I definitely feel like in the beginning it's just them catching up to see what they've been up to because the Jack that (*Louie) knows is a kid who is dependent on their parents and is just very - very kid like. But when he comes back, he realizes that the that Jack is very independent and he doesn't know how to respond to that. But towards the end, he trusts it. He trusts Jack's instinct and he just goes along with it. It just rolls through the end of the movie.
James: I think that's a really beautiful way to look at it, because we talked so much in pre-production about how Jack is so much more mature than his older brother, despite there being a massive age gap. And we didn't mean that in like an offensive way, but I think it's pretty accurate to a lot of relationships I know or can think of. Just because you're older doesn't mean you're more mature. So yeah, I love hearing you say that because that's so spot on, you know?
And the thing we thought about the most in the story development is that - you know, when you're away from someone for so long and you don't know how they are, you're not in contact, you don't know what they're up to, and you see them and it's just like - there's such a sense of relief just being around them. And so that was really what that whole fishing sequence was about for Louie, in my opinion. He’s just so happy to be in proximity to his brother, but he also doesn't want to show it, you know what I mean? And I just don't think there's anything really to say because he's still sensing out whether or not Jack is going to forgive him.
And I think they're just picking up off of what each other is doing, like brothers do, you know? I mean, I just think that's such a brother thing. You don't need to say anything to know what the other person is thinking, you know, it’s your same DNA. And I really think that's what that was about from my perspective, you know, is that they're just happy to be in proximity to each other and doing this thing that they should have done a long time ago. I don't know. They don't really strike me as the brothers that need to talk a lot to have a shared experience
Which is great. I mean, honestly, I think that there's a lot more chemistry between the characters when they're not talking and when they are just kind of, you know, going on this outing with each other. It's kind of awkward with Louie trying to explain himself and, you know, trying to figure out the right things to say in the right way.
James: Very awkward, for sure. I mean, I just want to say real quick that that's all the director, Emmi. She took this idea I had and even before we got on the set, just made it so much larger and more thought provoking and meaningful and added so much depth. And that was all her concept, you know, like, okay, if he if he apologizes and goes through that super awkward experience and then gets rejected, what does that look like and how do they interact afterwards? And it's not going to be like a fun conversation. Like, what if they're just not speaking? So that was that was all her, that whole like sequence. I mean, it was all her in general. But that specific that idea definitely was all her.
That's super interesting. And I actually want to ask both of you in a minute about the on-set experience. So I'll get to that in a moment. But I guess what I realized in the credits, obviously, James, you act as the character Louie, you produce the film, but I saw the line that said “Story by James Kelley”. So tell me more about your role in developing the story and why this was so important for you.
James: Honestly, it was during the pandemic and everything was shut down, I wasn't auditioning. Obviously I want to say there are so many worse things, so I'm not complaining. But that was just the reality of my work, and I just felt like I could get everyone in the same room and make something we all felt really passionate about. And I had this idea of like, how difficult would it be to reach out to a family member that you're not expected to see or even welcome during this time of isolation and then the ball sort of started rolling from there. And then I had a monologue that I had performed like throughout high school and for a while that was kind of like basically just an apology.
I mean, it was super different, but it was awesome. And so we kind of combined these ideas and I just started thinking about this person who is going through treatment. And you know, in treatment there's this concept of rebuilding bridges, which I think sounds cliche, but it's actually really true and really important. And I think at the end of the day, you still have to make that decision to go through with it.
And that was really where the idea came together, is that Louie has already made this decision. Now he's back in his hometown and he's got to stick with it. And if he doesn't stick with it, how well is he going to feel at the end of the day? And so just that headspace of absolute terror and stress - that's where we just kept adding ideas and ideas of like, my God, this is such a stressful, brutal 20 minutes to have your entire well-being hinge on one interaction - that you don't even know if you're going to have! Like, you're not in contact. He’s essentially just getting lucky finding Jack. He knows where he is because it's his hometown to a degree, but. It's just, yeah, that unknowing for such a stressful interaction.
It's interesting because I got all of this sentiment from watching this short film. And as you're explaining it I'm like, where's the feature length film? Like, when are we gonna get the feature length?
James: It's in development right now, actually. I'm glad you said that. Yeah, it’s in development.
I'm really happy to hear that because there is a lot to delve into with this. Like I said, it packs a lot into this little, you know, 15, 20 minute short film. But there's so much to unpack. And I really think that a feature with this story can help do that more justice. So that's really great to hear that.
James: Yeah, 100%. we're actually pretty far along, honestly.
I mean, really happy to hear that.
James: We still have a lot of hurdles to jump through, obviously.
Let's get behind the scenes a little bit and talk about being on set, working with the cast and crew. I don't know if you guys have any stories about working with Emmi, working with the crew, being on set – what comes to mind when you think about and reflect on making this film?
James: Jack you want me to go or do you want to go?
Jack: You can take this one.
James: Alright.
Jack: I gotta think about all the experiences.
Yeah think about it Jack, I'm gonna come back to you, okay?
James: I mean, for me, it was easy. It was like the best on set experience I've had. It was so fun. Emmi’s such an amazing director. She put together such a great crew. And our cast was literally our dream cast, you know, we got everyone we wanted, which was insane. I feel like that never happens. Jack's amazing, he's hilarious. He's always cracking jokes, which is so funny. It was a nice relief to because it’s some pretty heavy stuff.
I think the funniest thing that happened was we had to shoot the soccer scene. And we didn't get any extras, we didn't get any soccer players, and we were like freaking out because like, it's hard to get 20 people to come to a low budget indie film. And I was sitting there with Emmi and she was coming up with Plan B, Plan C, which were all great ideas. And then I was just like - my head was down on my hands and I know joke looked up and there was an entire soccer practice going on at our location, and I was like, my God! Let's go, let's go!
And then one of the PA’s, Scott, who was also amazing, ran over and was like, “Hey, if I give you 20 bucks, can we have one of your jerseys?” And then we threw Jack in a jersey, I think a different day because he wasn't there that day, and filmed him and then put it together and it worked so seamlessly. But that just kind of like summed up the experience. Like, how are we going to make this work? We got everyone on set that was so smart and awesome and everything just worked, you know? And everyone was so adaptable. It was amazing.
Isn't it really cool when, when things come together like that? Like, I mean there's certainly a stress involved with trying to make sure all the pieces are in place. And that's a very hard thing to do on an indie film with the limited budget. But then just miraculously what you need happens. It’s movie magic, really.
James: Yeah, and the other crazy thing that was so nuts is the ending was supposed to be them fishing and it was just going to be like a winter day. And then we went to shoot the fishing scene in a snow squall came in. We changed the title to Squall after that. But it was like, how perfect is this? This guy Louie has been waiting for two years to reconnect with his brother, to go fishing. And he was supposed to take him on like three years ago. And they go and there's a snow squall. I think that really speaks to what I was saying earlier, is that he's just so happy to be in his proximity, they’ll fish through a snow squall, you know? But that was pure luck, that was not in the script or anything.
I was I was literally - it's a question on my list that I was going to ask because weather is so difficult to plan for. So, to base the movie on the idea that a squall is going to come in.
James: Yeah, there's no way. No way. So I don't know for the feature, I don't know how we're going to do that. We’ll have to chase squalls around the U.S., I guess.
Maybe. That’s funny. Jack, does anything come to mind when it comes to being on set and working with the cast and crew?
Jack: Just the unpredictability of it all. It was just - everything just worked out in our favor. It was very lucky to have those shots, especially with the last scene. It was perfect pretty much. And it was just - we were walking to the fishing spot and it just started to snow and I was like, “Are we still going to film?” But it was and it was perfect.
Very cool. Yeah, I'm really happy that that worked out. It just everything seemed to really, really come together here. You know, as you're saying, this is kind of a heavier film. There's really intense themes here to grapple with and we've talked about that. But I'm really curious what ultimately you would like the audience to take away from this movie?
I remember when we were talking, you had mentioned that at the screening, there were people that were really connecting with the story. So like, tell me more about how people are responding and what you really want people to take away from it.
James: I mean, that's tough. You can never really - you can only hope what people take away from it and at the end of the day, you know, you don't really know. So you kind of just got to make it because you love it, for lack of a better expression. But yeah, at the screening there's these two brothers who are I'm now friends with who run recovery centers, and they were like talking to us afterwards about how authentic and accurate and well thought out it felt. And they were like, “as we're watching, it reminds us of, you know, like why we do this and people we know”. And they swapped their stories and I swapped my story and it was just really cool. And they were talking about how Jack's performance was so accurate of an individual that they have to deal with on a regular basis and how it impacts family members.
So that was the best compliment we ever could have gotten. So shout out to those guys. I can't wait to keep talking to them and see if there's a way for us to collaborate in the future, you know? Because that's like I said, that's the best thing we could have ever gotten. I think my hope for the takeaway - and I think Jack's might be different, which is awesome - is that like, yeah it’s heavy and yeah it’s brutal and yeah it’s intense and Louie really puts himself out there and I think the end ends on - it's not like, an “oh my God we're hugging” moment but it's like, okay, they got to go fishing together and they're in proximity. So that's a win, you know? That's a huge step for him in his recovery. And he can build upon that and he can stay on the trajectory he's been on of recovering.
I don't know. So I like to think it's realistic, but also ends on a positive note, you know?
Absolutely. And again, I think that that's where this, you know - that open endedness really does leave a lot of opportunity to kind of wonder where the story goes after that and, you know, kind of figure out like an extended narrative, which again, is why I'm thinking feature.
James: I love it. I'm stoked.
Jack, I wanted to talk with you because, you know, you're getting accolades for your performance in this movie. I wanted to talk with you about acting and what draws you to it. Now, we can't talk too much about anything outside of this film, but just you as an actor. Tell me more about what appeals to you about acting and, yeah, just about that as a career.
Jack: I feel like acting is going into another person's body and trying to live their life as if you can bring some elements of your actual life into theirs. So some of it has to be natural and some of it has to be from your own experience of watching other movies or just in life. Like, I've never had problems in my family, thank God, with any drugs. But I can imagine how people may have felt. Or I could watch a movie or a show or anything to see how people react or cope or just deal with how to deal with people with drug problems. And some of it has to be natural and some of it has to come from your own experience.
Just kind of a tangent question, I guess. Are you as athletic or active as Jack the character? Because he obviously does soccer, he likes fishing. How much of that is a part of your own personal life?
Jack: In soccer, no I stink at soccer. I can’t play soccer for my life. But I definitely like to go fishing. I definitely love sports, but soccer is just not for me.
That's fair. Well, you convince us, so, well done.
James: Jack's a really good skier. Him and I bonded over our love for - I snowboarding, so. Yeah, but he's a really good skier. Yeah. I don't know. Are you going to go skiing soon, Jack?
It’s almost that time of the year.
Jack: Yeah, coming up.
James: Weren’t you guys - not to go off topic, but when you were in Vail last winter, right? Didn’t you ride there?
Jack: Yeah, I went skiing up there. It was like towards the end of winter so the snow conditions weren't that much greater than in Vermont, but it was just beautiful seeing all the mountains in the background and going down the nice slopes.
James: Wasn't that your first time skiing out West? If I remember correctly? Yeah, because I remember having a conversation on set with you and your mom about how you know, you guys had to go. And then I was texting with your mom, I think, when you guys were out there, because I had actually gone snowboarding in that area like two weeks before you guys were there. It's so fun to go out west for the first time. So magical, right?
Jack: Oh yeah
James: That's awesome. Also, I'd love your answer to the first question. I'm going to record that.
Yeah, yeah absolutely I’ll send it to you.
James: That was such and such a thoughtful but like, meaningful answer. I love that.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to start rapping at least this conversation up. Just a couple more questions. James, kind of in the same direction as you when it comes to acting and your career in filmmaking, I'm interested in knowing where you would like your career to go. Obviously, you're an actor. You helped produce this movie and develop a story. You're working on feature. Like, what does the future of your career look like?
James: I don't, I don't know. Hopefully amazing. But yeah, if I could continue doing projects like this, I would be very happy. You know, I love this story and I love this cast and crew and getting to have that on set experience is so meaningful. So honestly, getting to do this as a feature would be like just a dream come true and we're working on it as we speak because we just wrapped this short and I felt like there was so much more to these people's lives and so much more to their world and their story. And we always went in saying it's only 20 minutes in this person's life. And afterwards, ever since, I'm just like, okay, so what's the next hour look like? What's the previous week look like? What's last year look like? What's ten years ago look like? And so, yeah, I mean. Yeah, that would be honestly near future dream. To have this feature come out. I think there's still so much to explore and you know, and in a feature it's so different.
That makes a lot of sense. I'm hoping that happens. As for now with the short film, is there any information on where we might see the short film next or when people might have another opportunity to see it there?
James: There is a bunch of stuff coming down the pipeline, but we're actually not allowed to talk about it yet. In like a week, I'll let you know. I'll keep you updated because we have some exciting news coming up, which we're really excited about. So yeah, we just want to keep getting people to watch it and experience and hopefully connect with it. You know, that's a dream.
That's so cool. Well, I congratulate you guys on having this film, having it at Catalina Film Festival and for the ongoing development of whatever projects you have next. So thank you for talking with me about it. This is a really awesome conversation and I'm glad we able to make time for it.
James: Yeah, thank you for hosting us. This was awesome. I agree, this was a great conversation. We’re definitely looking forward to doing this again sometime soon.
Yes, that will be the case for sure.
Since the original recording of this interview, Squall has also screened at the Austin Film Festival.