After watching Dreams On Fire, I was very excited about the opportunity to talk with director Phil McKie about his film. His films are heavily steeped in Japanese culture, and after our discussion, it’s easy to see how his life experiences have helped influence his filmmaking style.

Art. Culture. Style. These are just a few of the topics Phil and I cover in regards to Dreams On Fire, and our conversation is nearly as fun and vibrant as the film itself. Read our transcribed conversation below, with spoiler warnings when necessary. Also make sure to read Taylor Beaumont’s review of Dreams On Fire here.

Thomas Stoneham-Judge

I appreciate you being able to reschedule. Did everything go well with the screening last week?

Phil McKie

So the only thing that matters is how the audience, you know, how the audience experienced the film, and I think they had a blast. So unfortunately, the sound wasn't perfect in the screening room, but only me and my sound designer knew. And so the audience didn't know and so they had a blast. Everything was awesome. Like, okay, the screening was amazing.

Thomas

There you go. I guess that, you know, technical, technical difficulties happen, I suppose.

Phil

Well, it felt like I was back on set for a moment, like just scrambling around being like, you know. But in the end, everything worked out perfectly. And one thing that was surprising - So, have you ever been to Fantasia yourself?

Thomas

I've not actually been to Fantasia. So, started - Fantasia is actually the very first film festival I covered as accredited press last year. So this is kind of a festival that's, that's close to home to me, even though I've never actually been, because I've been writing for a few years. But when the pandemic happened, some other blogging friends of mine said, Thomas, you should just apply and see what happens. And so Fantasia was the first one that I did that for and it has, yeah, kicked off a whole year of really incredible film festival experiences. Because after Fantasia did AFI and then Sundance and SXSW and it has just been so cool. Anyway, I'm sorry, so no, I have not been to Fantasia yet.

Phil

Cool, I hope that you can go someday, but I'm happy to hear that Fantasia kind of has a special place in your heart. Right?

Thomas

It absolutely does. When my credentials were accepted again this year, it just kind of reminded me that a large, very important segment of my writing experience started with Fantasia last year. Yeah, so it's, it's great. Um, but yeah, anyway, we can jump into this.

Phil

So I was gonna say sorry. So usually Fantasia, the screenings are really rowdy. I like that. People are super vocal and it's almost like a concert. The rules are different. So people would be hollering to the screen or, like, having a relationship with the screen. But this time with Dreams On Fire, it was super quiet. And I was like, I was like - Oh my god...is everything okay? However, as the film ended, it clicked. I was like, yo, actually, people were just really into the story and following the character, and everyone was just locked in. And so in the end, I was a bit worried at the beginning, but then afterwards, I was like, oh, man, that's actually amazing.

Thomas

Yeah, that's fantastic. And so cool that people did respond in such an attentive way. I know, I was very involved with this story. I thought, it's so immersive. And we'll talk about that, there are some questions I have about that. But it was just such an engrossing experience between the dance and the arts and color - how you use color in it. It's such a cool thing.

Phil

“Immersive”. I love that.

Thomas

Yes, I absolutely felt that way. And so I'm excited to talk more about that. Um, let's see. Let's start here: Why don't you tell us - for those people who are just now learning about Dreams On Fire - give us a brief synopsis of what the film is about.

Phil

Alright. So Dreams On Fire is the first ever Japanese Urban dance film. And even saying that blows my mind because I'm like, how did this happen? You know that it's 2021 and it's me, right? And the story follows Yume who is a girl from the countryside, who dreams of being a dancer, and who runs away from home to the big city of Tokyo to try and make that dream come true. So this synopsis - and I've heard this many times for people that watch films, they're like, this synopsis sounds like any other freakin, you know? [laughs] - so many stories have that basic premise. And I wanted people to go in with just that basic premise and then where it takes you from there is where things get special. Right?

Thomas

That is actually a very fascinating way to approach this because you're right, it is kind of a - it sounds like a story that we've heard before. But I think that how it's presented is so unique and so distinct to your filmmaking style and your storytelling style that it - you're right, it sets kind of this expectation and then the film just blows you away, because it is such a special kind of film.

Phil

Your comments are making my day.

Thomas

No, I really enjoyed this one. This is why I had to make this interview happen. I actually - I'm excited to talk more about the film, but I think in order to do that, we should talk a little bit about you. I think one of the things that was very apparent to me in this film - and also that I found out is very true in my research before this interview - is how dedicated to authenticity you are. I'm not familiar with Japanese culture, and much less underground dance in Japan, but I felt the authenticity in the film and it was such a great experience. I want to thank you for bringing that nature to the story. In my research, it seems like though, that took a lot of work and research on your part. So can you tell me a little bit more about how you approach cultural filmmaking?

Phil

Alright. And I'm so happy to dive into this topic with you. So when I - so my journey in Japan, I always say 10 years, but honestly, it's been now like almost 12. I moved to Japan in 2010, like right before the big earthquake happened. And so I was fresh out of film school, arriving in Japan and much like Yume: stars in my eyes, like, “I'm going to be a director!” You know? I got to Tokyo, and very quickly started to dive into those underground scenes and immediately - like first night - I realized that even though I've been researching these topics for years and years, reality was nothing like the internet told me. And I just put down my camera and I was like, I'm not ready.

Thomas

And so I think the first step was me realizing that I needed to research everything from scratch - like actually from within. And so then it started a process of years of befriending people, integrating myself into those scenes, you know, doing stuff like DJing and event organizing and other artistic things to be with those people that I wanted to tell stories about, right? So step one was just a whole lot of research by living in that world. And it's like - I say research but at the same time, it's like it was my greatest pleasure. Because I love talking to people, I love meeting people and getting to - when I feel like I'm learning something new of these subcultures that I'm into, that's a really great feeling for me. Yeah, and a lot of the things we see in the film - of course, there's all the dance aspects, but there's a lot of other things too. Just the world she works in of being a hostess and things like that, you know? Everyone in the film, all these characters are either a part of myself or people that I've met, in a way.

Regarding authenticity - so no matter how much research I do, I know that I'm not Japanese. And that's okay. And so I know, like my skill set. And I know that in certain realms in Japan, I'm very knowledgeable. And even our cast, like Bambi [Naka]...she's a legend. She's reached the summit of dance in Japan and all these things, but she would get on set and she would look around at all these funky people and the locations and she's like, Phil, how do you know these things? You know? So, I have confidence about knowledge in certain respects, but it's very important to me to also have consultants, which I call them, like, my campuses. So whether it's people that [have] dedicated their life to being dancers in Japan - you know, I would always ask them questions from the very beginning, from the script stage, right? And then on set, every single actor, I would have a dialogue with them early on, where I'm like, look, I cast at you because you are the closest I could find to represent this character. I want you to tell me if ever there's something that you feel isn't right with that character, or if you just want to add something on top, you know, hit me, like, just hit me with it. And so I think there was a lot of trust between me and the cast. And yeah, so there's all these different things that come together.

Thomas

That's so awesome, and I think having an open mind like that, as an artist - I'm sure it can be difficult, but also great. I mean, it's nice to have the input and - talking about authenticity - it seems like you knew how to use your resources to facilitate the kind of authentic experience that this is. So I think that that's great.

Phil

Yeah, it's a deep topic, like now that I'm like, woah - even like locations and things like that. Yeah, so all this time in Japan, you know, over 10 years, every day was location scouting and researching and all these things, and then working with the people to make sure that everything is authentic.

Thomas

Yeah, of course, if you're ever in Seattle, we can grab a drink and you can tell me [even more about that].

Phil McKie

I’d love that!

Thomas

You know what I was very curious about - because I went and looked back and looked through some of the films you've done before and you definitely immerse yourself in Japan, and you've immersed your work in Japanese culture. I was curious, why Japan? Like, what was it that drew you to Japanese culture and made you want to make that the setting of most of your storytelling?

Phil

Right, okay. So, as a kid in Canada, I got exposed to some crazy Japanese art. You know, it started out with things like anime and manga. And then from there, it went into illustration and other literature and other things. And I just had this feeling from a young age, I was like, yo, there's something next level that's coming out of Japan. Some of these things that are coming out are so beyond what I'm seeing coming out of, like, where I'm from, let's say. And that's where it all started. I was like, what's causing this, you know? And so that created the spark to want to go.

And once I got there, Japan was actually very different from what I expected. And in the beginning, it was actually depressing for a little bit because I created - you know, I think this happens with people that dream of a place for many years. Right? And then they get there and they're like, Oh, my God, reality. You know? So I kind of had to destruct those preconceptions that I had, and then, again, start from scratch and find new things that I loved about Japan. And as soon as I really moved there, I just felt like, wow, there's so much potential. I actually felt like it was painful. that just every day I was surrounded by so many things that I wanted to make films about. And I was just yearning, right?

And I also think that - so I see countries, you know, where we choose to live - it's almost like a relationship where every country and every city has its good sides and bad sides, right? No place is perfect. No person is perfect. And it's just finding a place that matches with what you're looking for, right? And in that sense, Japan, you know, there are certain aspects, especially this infinite depth in subcultures, and those creative worlds that is just infinitely inspiring for me. Yeah. I also think that there's a ton of crazy artists, because film is all about collaboration, right? And bringing together all these different artists to create like one thing together. And there's so many talented, crazy artists in Japan that have never gotten the opportunity to collaborate on a film. And I can't wait to like, unite the power. 

Thomas

That's awesome. And I'm so happy to hear that you have found that kind of inspiration in Japan and I think that it shows in your work. I can definitely feel that fascination with Asian and Japanese culture and life in the stuff that you do, which is great. So let's talk about the story of Dreams On Fire. I'm interested in what led you to tell this particular story about Yume?

Phil

Okay. So, the story of Dreams On Fire, it's - for me - it's a combination of a couple things. So, on the one hand, it's the most honest story that I could tell because it's very much inspired from my journey, as someone that's trying to reach their goals, right? And it's a story about dance but I - in making the film - I hope that like anyone that's hustling towards a goal can resonate with Yume’s journey. And so on the one hand, it's like, that's the most honest story that I could tell because it was what I'm going through at the time of writing it, right? And on the other hand, dance has always been a big part of my life. And, like, back as a teenager, I used to dance competitively in breakdancing and Tango. 

Thomas

Nice. Wow, that’s quite the combination.

Phil

Yeah. And I used to fuse them! So sometimes - I did like a couple, like Tango performances, where I would blend breakdancing and Tango. And my Tango partner was also a B-girl, so we would like go from Tango, and then bust into, like, freezes or something. And the audience was like, What the heck, what's going on? You know? [Laughs]

Thomas

Where are the YouTube links? I must see this!

Phil

Oh, this is pre-YouTube, because I'm old. [Laughs]

Thomas

Well, if you can just do that again, and get it on camera. I would love to see this.

Phil

Yeah. So dance is a very big part of my life. And then as I committed to being a filmmaker, you know, it's still in my heart. And I always thought in the back of my head that nothing would be scarier than shooting dance, just because of the potential of how beautiful dance and movement can be on screen. Right? So it was a combination of telling the most honest story I could plus the scariest thing I could do.

Thomas

Wow. Well, that is very brave of you to take on a challenge like that. So incredible. And while I mean, while we're talking about that - so filmmaker, DJ, dancer, is there anything...you don't do? [Laughs]

Phil

Honestly, there's not much I'm not interested in. You know what I mean? However, I always knew that filmmaking is number one, right? And if I could have only one title, I'm happy with just “filmmaker”. And it's funny, like, when - because I have so much respect for all these things, even just DJing, or these different art forms - there are people that are dedicating their lives to that. And I do not want to be seen as like, not a rival or anything, but like, I'm a filmmaker, and I also have these experiences. And those experiences, I did them...as a process of research towards the filmmaking. And when I left film school, you know, I started DJing in Tokyo, and people in my film school - there [were] these rumors starting that Phil dropped out of film school to become a DJ. Because I wasn't making films, because I wasn't ready, you know? And I was like, yo, guys, wait, you'll see it all will come together! And Dreams On Fire is that that.

Thomas

That is so fascinating. I mean, it. It falls into that category, like with how much time it takes to learn these things, and to be proficient enough at it to then put it on film. Yeah, I can see the perception of, “Oh, no, he's changed his career,” but you actually made it happen. You came back to film and you made it relevant. I am [impressed] - It's very impressive. Very impressive.

Phil

I'm curious what kind of music do you listen to personally? What's your main, like, genre if you have one?

Thomas

That's a great question as well. I listen - I think I listen to a little bit of everything, but it really just depends on my mood. Lately I've been into Country, which makes it appropriate that I'm in Nashville right now. So country, but I really like Jazz. I like R&B, Pop, Top 40 stuff is okay, as well. Yeah, I just - I think every genre is - and this is my, my opinion with film as well - I think every genre has good music. I’m willing to explore those genres to find what I enjoy, and what I think is good. I think maybe some genres might have a lot more good music than others based on my own personal preferences. But, but yeah, I guess I'm kind of all over the map. And that was a very long winded answer to your question.

Phil

No, I love it. That's fantastic.

Thomas

Do you have a favorite genre? Like, club mixes? Techno?

Phil

So, much like you, it depends on the mood. And my - I have all these different playlists of like different vibes. But definitely a very big chunk of the pie is electronic music. And there's - I think, like, Dreams On Fire - if you want to know what kind of music I'm into, Dreams On Fire is representative of that. And I'm sure maybe you have questions about the music later, but one genre in particular that I feel is still underground and just about to break out is a style called Wave. And in Dreams On Fire, we have many of the top Wave producers that made music for the film. 

Thomas

Okay. Hmm. Well, I kind of want to talk more about that...

Phil

Sorry, I just, like, jumped into another realm of questions.

Thomas

I have, like, 30 different questions floating up in here right now. But you know what, let's talk about that. Let's talk about the art because you had mentioned that you've done multiple styles of dancing. And as it turned out - I think that that's something that you've incorporated into this movie really well is multiple styles of dancing. I mean, the opening scene is a very, very elegant theater dance, very beautiful on stage. And then it goes - after an opening scene with Yume - then goes to this underground dance battle. And I was just blown away by that scene, or both dance scenes really. But what I really appreciated about the first underground dance scene were the long takes. It was just, on that particular scene, you held the camera on the dancers and just let them dance. And I absolutely admire that because I hate when movies cut too much to try to keep it exciting. It actually just gets distracting. And what's happening on the screen and the scene is fantastic. And I don't think your editing ever gets in the way of that, especially in this one scene, just having the camera there. So tell me more about dance in this movie, about the music, about costumes. I'm actually really interested in knowing how you were able to bring so many talented artists together to make this work.

Phil

Cool. All right, I have - there's like four threads in there. No, I love it, though. I totally love it. The first thing that came to mind as you were describing - by the way, like, seriously, your comments are making my day like you have no idea. So that first dance battle sequence. It's funny that we were talking before about my background in dance and it's interesting that I wasn't thinking about it at the time of shooting, but I was the main camera operator of the film. And I really do believe that the relationship between the camera and the actors when you're shooting is a dance. You know what I mean? Like, how you choose to move - and so during those sequences where they're dancing, I was like, moving and dancing the camera too, right? And so I'm only realizing now how much I was actually dancing too, like, alongside them.

Thomas

That's awesome.

Phil

Yeah. But also, you know, there's a lot of like conscious decisions of like, how it's going to be shot, right? And you mentioned the editing. I think there's another reason why we were able to have so many of these long takes, is that I feel a lot of these dance films that we see - they're casting actors as dancers. And so they're trying to be tricky, and they're cutting with body doubles and things like that, right? And from the very beginning, I knew I wanted to cast real dancers as dancers, so that I could just capture them. And I'm like, look, there's no trickery. This is real. And this is the talent that they have. Straight up. 

Thomas

Yeah. And that's incredible. I mean, within that underground scene when Bambi is just kind of sitting on the sideline, just watching everything happen it’s so incredible how she goes from kind of being that shy, quiet like bystander, and then she starts dancing. It's like, whoa. Cuz I'm not. I'm not familiar with Bambi this is something that I was introduced to. I went and YouTubed her after this and she's an incredible dancer. Absolutely incredible. But not knowing that, I'm just like, Oh, I wonder what she's gonna do? Is she gonna be able to keep up? I don't know. And then she starts dancing and I'm just like, wow, yeah, incredible. She should have won that scene.

Phil

I - and that's another thing, which is really interesting is that a lot of times, who wins and who doesn't is very subjective, right? And it all depends on the judges, right? So. She did rock. She was freaking awesome. But a kid came out, right? And it's like, uh oh, you know?

Thomas

That's true. Oh, yeah. And then you put tap dancing in there! I ‘bout lost my mind when brotherman brought out some tap dance shoes!

Phil

And that's actually based on a true story that - so this guy, he's one of the top tap dancers in Japan. And he has his own chain of tap dance schools. And he traveled the world to learn his dancing. Like, he went to the States and he spent a couple of years in New York and these other different cities to seek out the masters. And then he came back to Japan lie after many, many years. And that's why he's so good, is that he went out there to learn from the masters. Anyways. So that sequence is a footwork battle. And it is like - in talking to that top dancer and learning about his story, I did learn that he did bust out tap dancing in a footwork battle, and people lost their minds. And I'm like, you know what? I think I'm gonna take that.

Thomas

Wonderful, wonderful surprise, I suppose. I mean, the dancing was already incredible. And it's like, how do you one-up that? And then he brought tap dancing shoes out. I was very impressed.

Phil

I’m so happy that you dug it.

Thomas

So I imagine like with all these different incredible artists, you must just have this, like, golden address book or contact book with all of the world's best artists, how do you amass such a collection of artists for this film?

Phil

I love it. So I do have the golden binder. However, the golden binder is very specific to the type of artists I'm into. And so with Dreams On Fire, I had to go outside the binder in the sense that my binder didn't have dancers in it, let's say. And so specifically for Dreams On Fire, I did spend a few years diving down into the dance communities of Japan and just going to countless events. And so it was a combination of literally asking dancers in Japan, who's the best? Who is the absolute best in this style, [or] this style, [or] this style, [or] this style. And then they would tell me the names and then I would research them and choose people that I felt fit. But it's literally an all star lineup.

And then adding other people in the film, like, I'll give you an example. So later in the film, she starts working at that s&m bar. And then after that shift, she's walking in the streets. And she goes into this fashion shop where she meets Cho Cho. So as she's walking to that shop, she sees a photoshoot going on in the street. And there's this girl that's got, like, elf ears and angel wings and just looks like an alien, right? So that alien, I had waited like eight years to work with her.

Thomas

Wow.

Phil

Yeah, she's, like, a legendary underground model. And I was waiting so many years for the right opportunity to contact her to be in a film. And that's an example of someone that was in the golden binder. And I was like, I'm waiting for the chance, you know? Yeah.

Thomas

That's incredible. Well, well done us you assembled all the right people for all the right parts.

Phil

Out of curiosity, so who was your favorite character in the film? Or like someone that showed up? And you were like, that sticks to mind?

Thomas

You know what - and actually, I was going to ask a question relating to this. I mean, obviously, Bambi is just - Yume, the character Bambi plays - is phenomenal especially with how she deals with a lot of setbacks, and has to deal with that disappointment and then get back up and keep going. But there were a lot of characters that came through and I think that they were all really instrumental with her development. Who was the dance instructor when she went and started going to the dance classes. I don't know the name, but I think that those dance classes were really cool to watch and to  see the interaction with her in this dance instructor, that one stood out. And then there's just a lot of great characters. I guess this has led me to my next question, which is about how Yume’s story progresses. So this movie seems to...it's a story that capitalizes on women helping women in an industry where it seems like men are more often setbacks and barriers for Yume. I'm wondering, I don't know if this is something that's talked about a lot in Japan or Quebec. But you know, gender equality and representation is a big topic that we're addressing here in the States. I'm interested in knowing how intentional that women-helping-women message in the story was, and also in the grand scheme of your work, what inspires you to produce these great female lead stories?

Phil

All right. It's definitely a topic that's talked about a lot in Quebec. Absolutely. In Japan, it's like a different, like, vibe. And I think a lot of - there are certain stereotypes about Japan internationally that - like Japan is very traditional in some ways...But the dynamics in Japan are very interesting. And I think that especially in terms of sexual identity and the dynamics of sexuality, Japan has a lot less taboo around those topics. And the way I put it is, I feel that eroticism is accepted as being a part of the human condition in Japan. And so that's why you get, like, even in mangas and comics for kids - it's extremely adult, you know? And, like, sex work and prostitution is legal in Japan, you know? And that totally changes the dynamics. So, going back to your question, sorry.

Thomas

This is great context. Yeah, this is new information for me.

Phil

So, regarding Yume and why is the character a woman, you know, personally, I just feel like we have enough strong male lead characters in films, like, in general, you know what I mean? So, and just - c’mon. Bambi? in the lead?? That is a dream come true. I really do believe that we reach our goals, we're not alone, you know? We have friends, loved ones, some people by our side that lift us up when we're down, right? And this film is a shout out, like me saying thank you to all the people around me that are helping me on that journey. You know?

Thomas

[SPOILERS] That's fantastic. Yeah. Because again, just seeing how Yume has to deal with disappointments, deal with setbacks, deal with barriers, but she has this, like, the series of characters that really helps her along the way. And it's - I really appreciated also where the film ends up and where the story ends, because I don't think that - when I think of a story like this with that, with the chasing your dreams kind of theme. There's usually - the end I imagine is like some grand, you know, ultimate achievement of a goal. Right? And it's not that that wasn't the case here. But it was interesting when she got to the audition, and she's told no, but the artist comes back and says yes...I want to work with you and have you as a backup dancer, I think is what ends up happening

Phil

[SPOILERS] Yeah, on my music video. Yeah, something totally different.

Thomas

[SPOILERS] Yeah, exactly. It wasn't it wasn't kind of that grand gesture of like, you've made it but for her and her story, that's a huge accomplishment...it just is an unexpected but really satisfying ending in a way that's not typical for, like, most American movies. So I appreciate that and how you told her story. It almost feels kind of slice of life in a way, but is immensely entertaining and also just really cool to see how these characters help Yume get to that point where she is finally happy with the direction that her career is going.

Phil

Mm hmm. So I'm so glad you felt that. In making the story. That's exactly what I wanted to make people feel.

Thomas

Yeah, absolutely. And just kind of leave it open to interpretation on where she goes from there. So that's fantastic....Well, I just have a couple more questions. So I appreciate that you have some flexibility with your time. I wanted to know if there are any other fun facts you want to share about Dreams On Fire, maybe some tidbits of information that might make people appreciate it even more, if that's even possible?

Phil

Yeah, I mean, I have secret backstories to like every scene in the movie.

Thomas

Yes! [Laughs] I’m just kidding, if you can think of one.

Phil

I’ll give you - there is definitely - How about starting with the very first shot of the film?

Thomas

Yes.

Phil

Okay. So the opening with the red dancers? So as a teenager, you know, immersed in dance, I tried in Montreal to go see as many dancers as possible. And one day, I went to go see a show called Dancing In Japan. And I was like, Oh, I wonder what it's going to be - [perhaps] it's going to be, like, traditional. Nooooo. That show opened with the very same number, the very same choreography, of the very same dance company.

Thomas

So you open the movie with the opening of that show.

Phil

Yeah

Thomas

That's fantastic.

Phil

And so, like, 15 years later, because I was in high school at that time - in Japan, about to make Dreams On Fire, So we're talking like, 15 years later, I find the same dance company. Like, I'd never forgotten about them, you know? And I go see the director of that dance group and I'm like, Yo, 15 years ago in Montreal you changed my life and I would want to start my film with your dance company. And I asked her to play the mother of Yume.

Thomas

Ohhh!

Phil

Yeah, Yume’s mother is actually this, like, famous choreographer. Who is the choreographer of that opening number. That's fantastic. And on top of that, so that's already like, wild from a personal level. But then, while we're shooting, you know, it's a very intense number. And, you know, so like, they do that number. And then, you know, there's other sequences where they're falling on the ground. It's very intense. So they were only able to do it a couple times. And so after we finished shooting it, they were like, “Did we get it?” And I'm like, yes. And then they huddled up and started crying. And I'm like, is everything okay? And it turns out that the woman who's in front of the dancers - she had chosen that performance as her retirement performance.

Thomas

No way.

Phil

She was like, ending her career as a dancer with that with our shoot.

Thomas

There's so much about this production that's incredible. Because, I mean, that's a really awesome fact. But I think that there's also - I had read or seen somewhere that there's a setting in the movie that got torn down. Or that isn't there anymore?

Phil

Yeah, more than one.

Thomas

Okay, so you're just, like, this pinnacle for a whole bunch of really important things in this film. That's incredible.

Phil 

Yeah. So the hostess club - that beautiful gray place with all the crystals and stuff - is destroyed.

Thomas

Do you know why?

Phil

Because the building was old. Just old. And Tokyo is always in a constant evolution, but that place - so what's funny is that, in reality, that place was a host club. So, men working there and women coming as customers.

Thomas

Oh, that's so fascinating.

Phil

Yeah, in reality, it was the opposite of what it is in the film.

Thomas

Wow, crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Well...I heard you're working on another film. And I'm pretty sure you can't talk a whole lot about it. But what can you say?

Phil

Yeah, sure. So, yeah, I - it's always you know, it's kind of like Yume. Like, what's next, you know? And so I have so many different projects that I want to do. And it does seem like one of them has a lot of momentum compared to the others. And what I can say about it is, again, it's going to be in Tokyo and taking place in subculture underground that we have not seen on screen before. And for the moment, I'm going towards it being R rated. And I'm just like, yeah, with Dreams On Fire, I wanted to create a story that...I felt could be appreciated by all age groups, and just be really kind of open. But this next one is going to be more freaky.

Thomas

Okay. Alright. Yeah, that sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing that Fantasia, maybe in a couple years.

Phil

Yeah, and I do think though that in terms of style, there's definitely gonna be parallels to Dreams On Fire. Like, you're gonna see it and be like, yeah, this is the Dreams On Fire guy.

Thomas

That's funny. Well, I'm looking forward to that. This will be my last question. I'm curious. Are you ever - have you thought about taking your filmmaking and storytelling outside of Japan?

Phil

Whoo. Wow. That's a cool question. So, yes. Like my rule is, as long as I feel potential and it excites me, I'm willing to explore it. And that's it. I have concepts for things that - I have created concepts for, like, things in Korea, I have a couple for Canada. I even have some for the States. That being said, I do think that Japan has something special. And there's a lot of untapped potential. I feel like Japan is like - there's a lot that I feel that I can bring to cinema from Japan, I feel. So for now, that's still the base, but I'm definitely open to working in different places. And I think that if I did, I'd probably want to bring in a couple crazy Japanese artists behind the scenes. My dream in the future is to have a very international team of like, crazy artists from the four corners of the world. Right?

Thomas

Right, man I cannot wait to see how all of that transpires and where your career goes from here. I mean, there's so much potential...I can't wait. It's gonna be fantastic. I'm sure.

Phil

Yo, I have to say that today's interview was such a blast. One of the most fun interviews I've ever had.

Thomas

I am so happy you feel that way. I'm happy that we were able to make this happen. For sure. So I think that that's everything for me, though. I really appreciate this. If you're filming ever in Seattle or Vancouver, you let me know.